Author Topic: Not to be outdone...  (Read 11763 times)

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Offline Ken Carrera

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Not to be outdone...
« on: October 07, 2008, 02:35:14 AM »
Harder may have four columns, but I feel it's all about quality rather than quantity.

In what the webmaster called a "scathing edition" (I don't know I'd go that far) of It's Carrera's Call, I finally snapped and wrote my latest column.  It is now available for your reading pleasure in the columns section on the website.

It's rather long, and I know I'll get some heat for it, but I really don't give a shit.  People had it coming.

Offline Adolfo

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2008, 12:29:29 PM »
Very very heated column Ken, and I understand your frustration. I was highly disappointed at the attendance. In my mind, I was hyped up and ready for what seemed a show to fill up the house. But it just didn't happen. It's a real downer, and I know higher management will have to keep that in mind. The show was AWESOME, but without the usual packed house most of the other ACE supershows had, it just didn't feel right.

Offline MrsDJcyco

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2008, 01:46:51 PM »
I happen to agree.. I expected the show to be packed, wall to wall. I have NO idea why it wasn't. I personally took flyers and posted them everywhere I could possibly post them without being arrested and handed a personlized invitation to court..

 I can't figure it out either. ACE puts on one of the best, most sensical shows in the area. As much as I hate to say this but there are *cough* other companies *cough*,  that heavily rely on TNA talent and repeatedly putting on a sub-par shows with "same old, same old" matches, And the best, the higher ticket prices... HELLO???. Their fans complain, the management acknowledges the shows are shit. So? WTF is going on here!

ACE may not have the financial backing, but NO ONE can compete with the quality of ACE shows.. . If i sound like a mark, thats fine, I don't give a shit what other people think. But I know what goes into these shows..
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 01:48:26 PM by MrsDJcyco »
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Offline hector316

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2008, 05:12:02 PM »
Very well said Ken.

I must say in the 1 1/2 years that I have been going to ACE shows, I have never seen such a small crowd for a supershow. I can't understand how one of Wrestling's biggest legends attends and there is such a mediocore crowd showing. On top of that, Ultimo Dragon goes into the ring to sign autographs and maybe 10-15 people show up to see him. Am I the only one that was saying "hello people, wrestling legend here." I saw more people on line for Gail Kim than I did for Ultimo. What kind of real wrestling fans are you?

Maybe times are tough here, I can understand that. However, I brought my 2  kids, and I bought 3 tickets at $25 dollars a piece. I bought a signed action figure from Ultimo for $20, I bought a shirt from Jessie Mckay for $16, and on top of that I spent money for food and drinks. I even paid $10 each way for a cab ride. If I can spend that much money and I have a family, the single, unmarried people watching ACE can spend at least half that. I know I may not be there for every show but I show when I can. And believe me when I show, you know about it.

Some how I think a lot of loyal fans have been lost over the past year. I'm not sure why but I think as fans we must do our best to support ACE. That means getting the word out. I think ACE should make up a general flyer that fans can print advertising not only the school but the Action Zone shows as well. I think that's a start. You can never have too much advertising. I have offered my services to print the flyers on my own printer before and the offer still stands.

Let's do our best as fans to help ACE. I know I will.







 




Offline MrsDJcyco

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2008, 09:13:05 PM »
Hector- I don't get it either.. And you know what, anyone can give me all the hell they want, but I'm gonna say it.. Here it comes.. There are feds out there like one who recently did a double shot weekend, a show on friday and a show on saturday. I understand that someone on their roster did one thing friday night, and at the saturday show, acted like nothing happened on friday. Yes, I know this is confusing, truthfully, i pretty much had forgotten the gist of the issue, not knowing I'd have to remember it.. The managment, from what I read on their boards, basically said the show friday night sucked. Their fans complain constantly they hate the talent.. I just don't get it. ACE does not have that negative controversy! They don't have confusing shows.. everything flows and makes sense..

As for losing loyal fans? I'm not sure about that.. I know times are hard for everyone, but jeez. 10$ for a Action Zone or 25$ for a supershow is not that bad..

I just wish I knew a way to fix this. I post flyers, post on LiveJournals NJ threads, post on Craigslist, Post where ever I can.. There has GOT to be something else!
Proud to be the ACE Ringside Photographer an EMT.

Offline Hothead618

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2008, 03:00:18 AM »
Word of the mouth is always great but not everyone who attends wrestling shows have friends that attend wrestling shows and even if they do not everyone of their friends is gonna have the same taste in wrestling. How do you know people didn't try to get their friends to come to ACE and they just don't want to be bothered? I think what a lot of fans and ACE management seem to be ignoring here is the fact that Joe Hardway, Mo Sexton, Vince Steele, Envy & Mike Donovon are not established names on the indy scene. ACE use to have a few guys, not naming any names that did have exposure on the indy scene but the more exposure they got the more bookings they got so ACE can't and wouldn't be smart to build around those guys. I'm taking nothing away from any of the guys I mentioned, talented or not they aren't established on the indy scene to most fans. Sure you have Ultimo Dragon, Jay Lethal & Azrieal but if they are wrestling guys some have never heard of are people gonna go? Sure you have Jay Lethal but he was against 3 unknowns on the indy scene that most fans have never heard of outside of the ACE fan base. If those guys get booked in other places and people like what they see the ACE attendance numbers might go up but you have to remember more exposure always means more money and you have to go to the place that is a better career move. Some guys can't stay in ACE forever waiting for it to someday blow up because it could but it might not as well. There is no guarantee. ACE is best at running their school and producing talent to move onto other places while putting on fun shows in the process. That should be ACE #1 goal. There is one other company(not mentioning names) that does this and is very successful at getting their talent to some more well known places while producing new fresh talent that can go and it still keeps the fans coming out because they know they always get a good show with good booking. Call me out if you want. I respect your opinion and hopefully you respect mine.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 03:02:01 AM by Hothead618 »

Offline unioncitycrew

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2008, 10:27:56 AM »
I honestly dont know what the hell happened to all the fans at the last supershow. Thaught their would be at least an extra 50 fans then what their were. Guess people have to pick and choose what shows they want to go to.

As an example, a friend of mine only goes to ROH all the time and doesnt bother to go to anything else.
"Mr. Hot Topic" :)

Offline TastesLikeBacon

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2008, 11:53:22 AM »
YOu know what HotHead? Do us all a favor and read your posts before you submit it. First you say that ACE has a bunch of "unknowns" that are only ACE talent?.. hmm.. I think NOT..

Joe Hardway- AWA/ACE, ECPW & ABC-PW
Envy - AWA/ACE, CCW (Tag team match)
Donovan-AWA/ACE,  JAPW, NHW
Mo Sexton- AWA/ACE, JAPW, ECPW, NWS, OVH AND a stint in WWE before injury
Vince Steel - albeit "new" to the business, ACE & BWO

Also, you stated these guys are not established in the indy scene, then at the end of your post you write this: " There is one other company(not mentioning names) that does this and is very successful at getting their talent to some more well known places while producing new fresh talent that can go and it still keeps the fans coming out because they know they always get a good show with good booking"

OK- so which is it? are you saying that ACE is a bunch of wannabe unknowns and the shows suck. Everyone knows thats not true.. ACE's shows NEVER suck.. ever.. Then you say its ok for another company to produce "fresh talent".. um, isn't FRESH TALENT a fancy word of UNKNOWN? Wait, then there was this comment " 3 unknowns on the indy scene that most fans have never heard of outside of the ACE fan base" Um, again, why say that, then qualify "another company producing fresh talent".. Make up YOUR MIND.

I have been to plenty of other shows that have had either unknowns or worn-outs and the fans were there. What difference does it make. A good time is a good time. either you wanna see a show or your don't.. But you can't say its ok for one company to produce fresh talent, then bash ACE's roster and call them "unknowns"..its a double negative.

dude-- i somehow doubt your here as a fan.. I think you're a spy or something.. but your intentions, are not good.



I am the Bullsh*t Police.. act up, and you will be called out.

Offline inyourface

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2008, 02:32:15 PM »
ACE FUCKING RULES!!!!!!! THE HELL WITH ALL THE HATERS
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 02:33:41 PM by inyourface »

Offline Hothead618

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2008, 03:56:31 PM »
YOu know what HotHead? Do us all a favor and read your posts before you submit it. First you say that ACE has a bunch of "unknowns" that are only ACE talent?.. hmm.. I think NOT..

Joe Hardway- AWA/ACE, ECPW & ABC-PW
Envy - AWA/ACE, CCW (Tag team match)
Donovan-AWA/ACE,  JAPW, NHW
Mo Sexton- AWA/ACE, JAPW, ECPW, NWS, OVH AND a stint in WWE before injury
Vince Steel - albeit "new" to the business, ACE & BWO

Also, you stated these guys are not established in the indy scene, then at the end of your post you write this: " There is one other company(not mentioning names) that does this and is very successful at getting their talent to some more well known places while producing new fresh talent that can go and it still keeps the fans coming out because they know they always get a good show with good booking"

OK- so which is it? are you saying that ACE is a bunch of wannabe unknowns and the shows suck. Everyone knows thats not true.. ACE's shows NEVER suck.. ever.. Then you say its ok for another company to produce "fresh talent".. um, isn't FRESH TALENT a fancy word of UNKNOWN? Wait, then there was this comment " 3 unknowns on the indy scene that most fans have never heard of outside of the ACE fan base" Um, again, why say that, then qualify "another company producing fresh talent".. Make up YOUR MIND.

I have been to plenty of other shows that have had either unknowns or worn-outs and the fans were there. What difference does it make. A good time is a good time. either you wanna see a show or your don't.. But you can't say its ok for one company to produce fresh talent, then bash ACE's roster and call them "unknowns"..its a double negative.

dude-- i somehow doubt your here as a fan.. I think you're a spy or something.. but your intentions, are not good.

That is not being established on the indy scene, sorry dude. The only well known company there is JAPW. Nobody cares about ABC-PW(it isn't even around that should tell you something), NWS, ECPW and some of the other unknown dinky promotions you speak of. Mo Sexton wrestled ONCE for JAPW and lost against Travis Blake, never came back after that. That should tell you something. Mike Donovon has never been anything than a filler guy for JAPW and the fans can't stand him. Envy has done nothing in JAPW but botch spots in every match he competes in. Those guys are not well known at all.

That other promotion I speak of is Chikara and they are successful doing what they are doing because they have their wrestlers going to ROH, JAPW, PWG, IWS, & IWA-MS which are all top indy promotions. ACE hasn't produced anyone that has went anywhere on the indy scene except for Pinkie Sanchez and he's still being built up.

Offline xrally

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2008, 06:13:49 PM »
Listen hold on, ACE's main focus has always been to create storylines, and keep it family friendly.  Not every promotion out there is trying to be a spin off of what was ECW.  Dude as far as JAP is concerned they have their fans that like their stuff,  as far as what they put on it's all ECW type stuff.  Man you can only watch so much of that stuff with out getting bored.  Honestly who are the regulars there now Grim Reefer, Bandido Jr., Danny Demanto, all guys who have worked ACE.  Bandido Jr. is still working ACE currently, Hell for that matter so is Azreil (hopefully spelled it right).  ACE doesn't put a gun to any of these wrestler's head.  If they feel like their better off there or any where else then fine stay there.  Now if they have anything else to say themselves they can take it up with Mr.Morgan.  My point here this is not the out of the box section of the board and we are talking about other promotions here.  Let's stop promoting other companies here please, and keep it to ACE topics please.  Now to everyone with your so called opinions about ACE if you hate ACE so much take yourself somewhere else.  That's how simple it is, fans that don't want to stay, can go where ever they want, wrestler's can wrestle anywhere they want if they are not happy.  I'm not attacking anyone here just speaking in general to does that aren't happy here, please ,please take your shit somewhere else you are urking the shit out of everyone here.


Offline The Truth

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2008, 05:22:31 PM »
Hi everyone I am new to these here boards as you can obviously tell. First off Ken I would like to say that article was very well written with a very intelligent aspect. Unfortunately the whole "word of mouth" by fans is a cop out plain and simple. Yes fans make the product, but when someone says "hey do you want to spend $25 tonight and go see Vince Steele and Joe Hardway wrestle?" People will respond with "who the hell are those guys? Why would I waste my hard earned money on seeing no names?" People want names on a show plain and simple. Only die hard fans will attend small indy shows because they love the wrestling and they are loyal. So to blame the fans for why attendance was bad is just idiotic. It's ACE's fault for not promoting more. On top of all that ACE runs in a small apartment building that resembles a crack den which doesn't help either. I am surprised no one has found a body yet. Long story short, ACE will die out very soon unless the staff promotes harder themselves and finds a new location. Thank you!
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 08:45:48 PM by The Truth »

Offline MrsDJcyco

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2008, 08:40:35 PM »
Hi everyone I am new to these here boards as you can obviously tell. First off Ken I would like to say that article was very well written with a very intelligent aspect. Unfortunately the whole "world of mouth" by fans is a cop out plain and simple. Yes fans make the product, but when someone says "hey do you want to spend $25 tonight and go see Vince Steele and Joe Hardway wrestle?" People will respond with "who the hell are those guys? Why would I waste my hard earned money on seeing no names?" People want names on a show plain and simple. Only die hard fans will attend small indy shows because they love the wrestling and they are loyal. So to blame the fans for why attendance was bad is just idiotic. It's ACE's fault for not promoting more. On top of all that ACE runs in a small apartment building that resembles a crack den which doesn't help either. I am surprised no one has found a body yet. Long story short, ACE will die out very soon unless the staff promotes harder themselves and finds a new location. Thank you!

First, I have to say, for someone who is "new to the board". I'd think you might post something a little less obnoxious and something a bit more positive. Its posts like this, that are NOT HELPING. 

The "cop out" remark is harsh and uncalled for. I personally DID NOT know about the shows until I was told about it, I had NO IDEA who these people on the roster were... But I LIKE wrestling, so I went.. AND? Action Zones are NOT 25$.  And the SuperShows, which are, carry bigger names.

As far as the building is concerned. I don't know where this "apartment building' stuff came from, but last I checked, there are no apartments there. Its all businesses. The "Crack Den" and "finding a body" remarks are not only inflammatory but are painting a very very negative picture which DOES NOT HELP and if I also may say, crap LIKE THAT is not conducive or inviting to new fans.  And not for nothing, in my line of work, I've seen real crack dens and plenty of REAL dead bodies.. so, I can say for sure the ACE arena, is no where near that.


« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 08:43:06 PM by MrsDJcyco »
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Offline KingDuke

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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2008, 11:28:54 PM »
After reading the column Ken wrote I am pretty amused at the fact that fans are to blame. Last time I checked we live in the 21st century. Now dont get me wrong, I like most of the product. There are a few wrestlers I could careless for, but none the less, advertising the show relies on the company. You mean to tell me word of mouth is going to get people to come to the show. I think missing a show hurt the draw into the show. Thats neither here nor their, but I still think it falls on management to take care of advertising. I loved meeting Ultimo Dragon because he was a favorite wrestler of mine, but unless your a hardcore wrestling fan you're not going to want to come see him.

I dont think it is fair to blame the fans. The 25 dollar price tag at the door might have turned away a family of four. If you were to average that out a soda is 2 dollars, a hotdog is 2 or 3 bucks. So lets see, if they all get at least a hotdog and soda they spend about 120. Not for nothing, the economy is fucked up and people are being more stingy with how they spend their money. That same family might just go to the movies for half that price, even though movie ticket prices are insane now.

Maybe the company should promote ahead of time. The WWE lets you know where the next Wrestlemania is going to be, before the one everyone is watching on pay per view is over. I dont know Im not a business major nor am I a marketing expert, but it doesnt help that there was no banner or sign that tells people where the show is either until last week. Its not the nicest looking sign Ive ever seen, but at least its a visible advertisement that people walking down the street on a saturday night might consider walking into with nothing to do.

Like I said before I think its unfair to blame your fans. And like I said earlier I enjoy watching most of the talent you have in the company. Maybe managment should look themselves in the mirror and realize what they are not capitalizing on.
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Re: Not to be outdone...
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2008, 09:03:55 AM »
Flyering never hurt anyone.  I'm not sure if there are many places to flyer around, but perhaps even just attending local shows and passing out flyers to fans leaving the show could help.  Is ACE interested in organizing a street team?  Bus trips, birthday parties, school events, all possibilities.  Yes it's a small building but you could sell potentially every seat in there with those kinds of gimmicks.